The opening question of the We the people forum asked both candidates where specifically they will be making cuts to reduce spending. Green completely sidestepped it by saying he will cut taxes. He completely ignored the specifics of the question so badly, you would think his answer was a practice run for a different question.
Partisanship aside, Jim Doyle's got the big picture. He does what it takes to move Wisconsin forward. His answers to all the questions were right on and shows he is intune with students, taxpayers, families and workers.
In response to helping local government, Green ridiculed Doyle for vetoing an unfunded mandate, without explaining where the funds will come from. Doyle did the right thing.
Irrelevant to many questions, Green constantly talked about lowering the tax burden. However, he doesn't mean taxes on property or income, he's talking about corporate tax breaks, period. If Green were elected, I guarantee one of two things, either all our state taxes will go up dramatically or services will be cut to draconian levels. Snow won't be plowed in the winter, police and fire departments will post hours on the door.
8 comments:
Doyle just flat out lied to the viewers. Saying Wisconsin doesn't have debt? Com'on diamond Jim we aren't that stupid. Wisconsin has a 5 billion dollar debt. But, he's a liberal democrat who like others thinks we are stupid and can't see beyond his lies. He's a disgrace to intelligence. He should know his facts before he debates. Mark Green should have gotten him on the lies he was saying.
Don't be a fiddlehead, anonymous. The idea that Doyle doesn't know his facts is nuts... all you'd have to do is look at the clever vetos the Governor made to keep us solvent to know that he *must've* been through the budget. The reason Mr. Green couldn't hammer the Governor for lying was that.. well, he wasn't lying.
If Doyle had been lying don't you think a genius like Rep. Green would've nailed him? -- and yet, you yourself note that he just let it all go bye. :^)
And anyway, Doyle's not really that liberal. He won Washington County when he ran for AG years back and we are the most conservative county in the state.
Doesn't it seem more likely that, from this point of view, *you're* the one who hasn't that much attention to the facts?
If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Best wishes. Mp
mpeterson You are wrong and I do accept your appology :)
Doyle Fails Debate Fact Check
“One of the things I appreciate about We the People is you’ re going to have a chance to go and check out the various facts that he says are not true.” – Jim Doyle, 9/15/06
Unfortunately for taxpayers, it’s Jim Doyle who was playing fast and loose with the truth. Here are some of the whoppers Jim Doyle offered up and the truth behind his lies.
Doyle lie #1
“ Wisconsin has no debt. Our debt didn’t go up one penny in the hour that we’re talking here today.”
The Truth:
According to the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, Wisconsin faces a massive debt of more than $2 billion
Doyle lie #2
“Of the 10 major manufacturing states in this country, Wisconsin is the only one that’s added jobs.
When I took office we were losing jobs and we are gaining jobs in Wisconsin …Here in Wisconsin , however, we’ve actually gained manufacturing jobs. While Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio have lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs we’ve actually gained them.”
The Truth:
· Jim Doyle may not have frozen taxes, but he certainly froze job growth. According to the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), ALL states in the Midwest have lost manufacturing jobs since Doyle took office. (NAM Release, June 2006)
· Just yesterday, Doyle’s own Department of Workforce Development reports that the highest paying sector in the Wisconsin economy, manufacturing jobs, has created virtually no jobs in the last 12 months. Jim Doyle put a hiring freeze on the job creators of Wisconsin. (DWD news release, 9/14/06)
· Wisconsin is dead last in the Midwest for new manufacturing facilities, expansion of manufacturing facilities and other businesses. DEAD LAST! (Site Selection Magazine, March 2006)
Doyle lie #3
“Each of the budgets that I have had, brought spending more and more under control.”
The Truth:
· Jim Doyle jacked up state spending by $2 billion – an increase of nearly 20% in last two budgets According to the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, spending under Doyle has gone up from $11.030 billion in 2003 to $13.152 billion in 2007. That's an increase of $2.1 billion – (+19.2%) since Doyle took office.
Doyle lie #4
“The fact is we have balanced the budget, the congressman is just wrong when he tells you that we haven’t, in fact we’ve balanced every single fiscal year that I’ve been Governor. We ended in the black. And the projections are that the year that will end June 30, 2007, that fiscal year will end $80 million in the black.”
The Truth
· According to the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, Jim Doyle spent Wisconsin into a $2 billion deficit.
· Jim Doyle vetoed a real property tax freeze 3 times and property taxes have increased $600 million since he took office.
· Doyle proposed $300 million in new taxes and fees, luckily for taxpayers, Republicans stopped those tax hikes.
· Republicans were able to stop Doyle's “iPod” tax - a brand new tax on computer downloads, a tax on temporary workers ($4.5 million and state law prohibited the tax from being levied) a tax on custom computer software ($49 million, again state law specifically prohibits this tax) and HMO's ($85 million). The iPod tax alone would have cost taxpayers $3.2 million in new taxes. (source Legislative Fiscal Bureau)
· According to the MJS editorial page, the HMO tax would have forced premiums to rise $85 million over two years. The liberal MJS said, “...He (James Buchen) is right to call this 'fee' what it is – a tax, proposed by a governor and an administration that have taken great pains to promise they would neither raise existing taxes nor impose new ones to pay down the state's deficit.” - MJS 4/3/03
Doyle lie #5
“Specifically with retirees we have eliminated the tax on social security in this state. Next year there will not be a tax on social security. At the end of next year the estate tax or death tax whichever you choose to call it will be federalized and will be ended in this state.”
The Truth:
· Republicans proposed all of those tax cuts.
· Jim Doyle tried to raise taxes and fees $300 million in his budget.
· Republicans stopped him and then presented needed tax cuts to help kick start the state’s economy.
Doyle lie #6
“As a percent of income our taxes have gone down.”
The Truth:
Taxes have gone up under Jim Doyle says the non-partisan Tax Foundation.
According to the Tax Foundation, taxes as a percent of income went from 11.3% in 2003 to 11.6% in 2006. Tax Freedom Day, has gone from April 19th to April 28th in that time.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/488.html
Doyle lie #7
“I signed the tightest (property tax) limits in the history of Wisconsin.”
The Truth:
· Property taxes have increased $600 million after Doyle vetoed the property tax freeze three times. (LFB memo
· One of Doyle’s allies in higher taxes, Democrat State Senator Bob Jauch admits Doyle tried to pull a fast one on taxpayers, telling his hometown paper: “The governor’s proposal didn’t freeze taxes.” (Superior Daily Telegram, 9/8/06)
· La Crosse County plans to raise property taxes 8.77 percent in 2007 – La Crosse Tribune, 9/12/06
· Kenosha Schools plan an 11 percent hike – Kenosha Daily News9/12/06
Doyle lie #8
“You know the fact is Congressman Green keeps coming back to this, I was handed a so called property tax freeze by the legislature without any provisions for funding public education in this state. And the result of that would have been a cut of $400 million dollars to our schools. Milwaukee would have been cut by $40 million dollars, Waukesha $5 million; you can just down the list. No provision for how they were going to fund education.”
The Truth:
· The Republican Budget increased spending for schools by $458 million, more than the Department of Public Instruction asked for. Total schools spending in the Republican plan was $11 billion. $11 billion is more than the Gross Domestic Products of 98 nations on Earth. More than the GDP of Jamaica, Greenland or Iceland.
· The Republican budget taxed less than Doyle’s, spent less than Doyle’s, borrowed less than Doyle’s and still froze property taxes.
Doyle lie #9
“I have doubled the amount of financial aide that the state makes available to students in this state in my four years and I am proud of that. That’s at a time when the Congress in the United States with Mr. Green following President Bush have dramatically cut student loans in this country.”
The Truth:
· Since Mark Green took office, funding for Pell grants went up nearly 70%. Pell Grant funding went from $7.7 billion in 2000 to $13 billion in 2006 – an increase of 68.8%.
· Under Jim Doyle, tuition went up more than 50% for students and their families.
· While he was raising tuition for Wisconsin students, Doyle lowered tuition for out-of-state students and even tried twice to give a special in-state tuition rate to illegal immigrants.
· A new study released yesterday by the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education gave Wisconsin an “F” in affordability.
Jim Doyle’s administration remains under investigation by State and Federal authorities.
advice to mpeterson: Your blogger manners are commendable but never apologize for your opinion, particularly when you're right.
DOYLE 10 Truths GREEN 0 Truths
Doyle Truth #1
“ Our debt didn’t go up one penny in the hour that we’re talking here today.”
Since we are dealing with projections, the state is supposely facing a $1.5 billion deficit while the governors budget office projects a $1.9 billion surplus during the same time period, resulting in a possible $400 million surplus. So during that one hour debate the state then gained approximately $22,830.
Doyle Truth #2
“Of the 10 major manufacturing states in this country, Wisconsin is the only one that’s added jobs.
Fact: Under Doyle the state has gained 179,000 jobs.
Doyle Truth #3
“Each of the budgets that I have had, brought spending more and more under control.”
That Doyle has been able to limit spending only to a 20% increase during the Bush inflationary economy, while health care, energy and asphalt have gone up nearly 50%, is something to brag about, not complain about. Doyle's brilliant.
Doyle Truth #4
“The fact is we have balanced the budget, the congressman is just wrong when he tells you that we haven’t."
The Wisconsin Constitution demands a balanced budget. Green not only is wrong, he's a habitual liar. Green is a Bush tool who has rubberstamped us into massive Federal debt. He will do the same to Wisconsin.
Doyle Truth #5
“Specifically with retirees we have eliminated the tax on social security in this state."
Doyle did say "we". Here he shows that he plays well with others despite a bullying and regressive republican legislature.
Doyle Truth #6
“As a percent of income our taxes have gone down.”
There are too many variables to prove him right or wrong on this one. But knowing that Wisconsin has received more tax cuts during Doyle than during the previous two governships tells me Doyle's statement is a sound and logical deduction.
Doyle Truth #7
“I signed the tightest (property tax) limits in the history of Wisconsin.”
You can cut that any way you want to, its the truth. Because the working class will be paying for the Bush taxcuts to the wealthy, place like LaCrosse and Kenosha Schools will have to vote property tax increases unto themselves. Janesville will join them soon by voting an additional $103 a year property tax increase. If left up to the Republicans, the schools would be closed.
Doyle Truth #8
“You know the fact is Congressman Green keeps coming back to this, I was handed a so called property tax freeze by the legislature without any provisions for funding public education in this state." Read #7 again.
Doyle Truth #9
“I have doubled the amount of financial aide that the state makes available to students in this state in my four years ."
Doyle vetoed Republican spending cut on schools to restore more than $8 million dollars in aide and $34.5 million to the UW. Pell grants did go up, but don't thank Green, he repeatedly voted to freeze them. He also voted to cut $12 billion in Federal student aid. The largest cut in the programs history.
Doyle Truth #10
“One of the things I appreciate about We the People is you’re going to have a chance to go and check out the various facts that he says are not true.” Ain't that the truth!
You may want to rethink Doyle's position this man is the most corrupt gov. in the history of Wisconsin. He's at it again. Looks like a lawer lobbied three people on the elections board before the vote on Mark Green. Can you say C O R R U P T. Unbelievable. If this was a republican doing this it would be all over the media. It seems only the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wants to actually report this. I would suggest that you take a look at the article on line at www.jsonline.com Doyle got caught red handed. What are the democrats going to place the blame on this one? I can't wait to see the next debate. Dirty Doyle is at it again time to clean up the corruption and make Wisconsin great again. GET DOYLE OUT OF MADISON!!!!!!!!!!!
Give them time, other newspapers will grab any story to sell their papers. The smart ones realize there is no story here.
"There was an important matter before the Elections Board," Doyle's spokeperson said. "We retained an attorney to advocate on our behalf, just as the Green campaign did."
If the Governor did "nothing" I would have a problem with his sincerity to fight corruption.
Green should return the money to his federal campaign treasury instead of using these diversion tactics. I can spell corruption its G-R-E-E-N
Louis your statement is weak at best. You defend Doyle by calling Green corrupt. Can't you actually defend Doyle and his lack of ethic's? A former state employee was just sentenced to federal prison for rigging state contracts.
I truly abhor name calling. At the same time, that's all I get from anonymous rants about Doyle. He's a sleaze, scum, or corrupt. So of course the natural tendency is to reverse the negativity.
1.The Republicans on the board say they have no documents for open records.
2.The DOJ wants Green to return even more money.
3. Politicians can get away with saying anything they want, Doyle included, so why won't Green commit to campaign and ethics reform in Wisconsin?
4. If Doyle is as bad as some Republicans say he is, the Feds would have shut him down a long time ago. Being investigated is meaningless. Thousands of innocents are investigated everyday, some are even found guilty for things they did not do.
Doyle is clean and intelligent. It's the system that's need overhauling.
5. Lobbying the board is legal. The GOP have more to hide on this one if they dig further.
6. If Greens past record in Congress gives up any clue to the future of Wisconsin, we are in trouble if he is elected.
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